Here is what's happening...
I have many legacy images that are jpegs. I used to take a lot of shots with a Sony 717 which did not have a RAW mode or much storage... we can debate the wisdom of my workflow of 7 years ago some other time... please just accept that I have a lot of jpegs that I wish to manage along with my newer raw files in LR.
If I decide that one of these jpegs needs a destructive edit and I use the ''open in CS2'' command, choose ''edit a copy'', (so I don't flatten the adjustments) when I save the the file and switch back to LR, the preview shifts color adding much more magenta.
This is sorta bad as LR is supposed to be where I ''Develop'' my images and I have an original and an edited version sitting side by side that look vastly different...
Now for those of you starting to type your ''Lrn2colormanage'' replies, hold on for just one second and consider these important points:
1. If I open up the image in Photoshop using the ''Edit A Copy With Lightroom Adjustments'' setting, and everything else is exactly the same, no shift occurs. If it was a color management issue then why wouldn't these shift as well?
2. If I save the image as any other file format after editing and re-import it into LR, no shift occurs.
3. If the original and the edited image are opened into Photoshop from the Finder, there is actually no color shift visible in Photoshop. This leads me to believe it's just the preview in LR that gets shifted.
4. Changing the preview quality settings in LR makes no difference.
5. If I start this process using a original that has been converted to a TIFF file before importing into LR, no shift occurs.
6. The color shift takes place on side by side previews in LR for images that have never left an Adobe product.
I would really like to see this working properly, as I would like to make edits to a lot of my images without committing to the adjustments I've made in LR. Since they are not RAW I may as well take advantage of the the ability to do so.
I've already managed to cobble together a workaround that seems to be successful: I set my history back to the import state on the original image, use the Edit Copy With LR Adjustments, make whatever edits I need in Photoshop, then bring the history back to current and sync the adjustments with the edited copy. It seems to me that these extra steps should be unnecessary though. Its hardly intuitive.
I would be totally happy if I could tell LR to open these in LR as a PSD or a TIFF but to get that result I seem to have to do a ''Save As'' and reimport it into LR. Jpegs always open as jpegs no matter how I set the external editor preferences. This would most likely be the best practice anyway. I think re-saving jpegs should be avoided even at max quality.
I'm providing links to two examples. The first one shows several images shown in LR with the color shift; the second one shows the very same images opened in Photoshop with no noticeable color shift.
http://homepage.mac.com/murdockscott/otherimages/ColorShiftTest2.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/murdockscott/otherimages/ColorShiftTest1.jpg
If this is in fact a color management issue, then it has me baffled, and I believe that LR and Photoshop should work intelligently together enough that there shouldn't be any extra steps that I would have to take to assure this doesn't happen.
After writing this I think the best thing to do would be to open what ever I want to edit from the finder in PS and save it as a PSD then reimport it into LR and stack it with the untouched Jpeg and sync any nondestructive adjustments. I guess I just wish LR would do all that for me. : )
Doc.
Color shift in edited LR previews
''First let me say that I don't believe this is a color management issue as the files never leave an Adobe product.''
Uh huh. . .so what are your Photoshop color settings set to, exactly? Do you have Preserve Embedd Profile enabled (you should). What is your PS Working Space? What OS?
You say it ain't a color management issue but then go on to ignore what your color settings are, so, how are we supposed to troubleshoot? (although you sure do write a lot of other stuff)
:~)
Color shift in edited LR previews
Jeff,
Your response reads like you think I left out my PS color settings because I was hiding them? lol.
Lets see if this helps in the least... heh
My photoshop settings are are typicly ''North America Prepress 2'' but as a test I have switched to most different RGB working spaces with no effect (as expected).
All Color Management policies are set to ''Preserve Embedded Profiles''
Mac OS X 10.4.9
So maybe you could explain to me why my you think its a color management problem even though the color shift is visible only in LR and nowhere else?
If you would like I can set the color in photoshop up any way you like and I bet you a dollar the preview in LR is still color shifted... I could be wrong but, I don't think so bud! : )
I see myself as someone reporting a thoroughly tested problem and getting a final check with colleagues on line that I am not missing some point. (We all make mistakes now and then). I carefully worded my overly vebose post as to not get lumped in with people with unreasonable expectations about how color works on computers... it seems I was not quite sucessful.
: )
How much of this fourm have you read, especially long threads on color issues. LR is in a different ball park than even PS. Jeff I am sure will fill you in.
For just a taste, search on 'Rishi' or 'Andrew Rodney' from the main forum list for a sample of said threads.
Don
Don Ricklin, MacBook 1.83Ghz Duo 2 Core running 10.4.9 %26amp; Win XP, Pentax *ist D
http://donricklin.blogspot.com/
Hey, guess what, I seem to have fixed my own problem.
It does seem a little bit strange, but LR apparently has a problem rendering previews from jpegs that are not saved as ''Baseline Standard.''
I don't usually pay too much attention to this setting, as it doesn't affect quality. At some point in the recent past, I had some reason to set it as ''Progressive Scan'' and Photoshop considers this setting ''sticky'' and keeps it that way until you change it back.
So now with my typical Photoshop color settings, I'm able to edit in Photoshop as a copy and just hit ''Save.'' As long as the jpeg output is set to ''Baseline Standard,'' it renders the new preview with no color shift in LR.
So it doesn't seem to have been a color management problem, after all. :-) Hopefully this can help other people who are having issues with color-shifted jpegs.
Don,
Actually, I read about as much as I could stand before my eyes crossed, and found that very little of it seemed to pertain to my problem. Luckily, as I posted above, I was able to find a solution, and it didn't seem to have anything to do with color management.
Thanks,
Doc.
''Your response reads like you think I left out my PS color settings because I was hiding them? lol. ''
No...but you wrote a lot without actually stating your Photoshop color settings...
''If you would like I can set the color in photoshop up any way you like and I bet you a dollar the preview in LR is still color shifted... I could be wrong but, I don't think so bud! : )''
Well, since I don't have one of YOUR jpgs, I really can't say...but when you open the image do you get an embedded profile mismatch warning? If you do, what do you choose, use the embedded profile?
When you hit save, you get prompted with a save dlog, right? Do you embed the color profile? BTW, do you save as a jpg?
So, when I open a camera jpg (from a Digital Rebel) as Edit a copy, preserve enbedded profile, save and go back to Lightroom and compare the original jpg with the one I just edited and saved in Photoshop (I'm using CS3 but it shouldn't matter) and do a compare of the two images, they look EXACTLY ALIKE...I can even meaure two areas-generally not the EXACT same spot-which I wish LR would allow-the the measurements are the same.
So. . .what are you doing that I'm not doing or...what am I doing that you aren't doing? Cause I can't seem to get an image not to match.
Still blissfully ignorant....Oh well.
We tried.
:)
Don
Jeff,
Read up a bit... Problem solved!
Thanks for the feedback, but it turned out to be a weird little thing... I begin to wonder if it may explain why so many people are having problems with a ''pink cast'' though.
Its very interesting that a jpeg saved with ''progressive scan'' generated such a different preview than a ''baseline standard''.
Doc.
Sorry. ..I started to post, opened Lightroom, had to import some jpgs from my daughter's camera (I don't shoot jpgs), do an edit in Photoshop, test the results, do a screen shot and then hit the Post Message while I was uploading a web page with the screen shots to my server...
So, I didn't see the intervening posts...
And, to think, I wasted all that time trying to help solve your issue...oh well, I did get to see some of my daughter's shots...
http://schewephoto.com/Sample-Images/
:~)
''Its very interesting that a jpeg saved with ''progressive scan'' generated such a different preview than a ''baseline standard''. ''
I'll pass that along to the engineers...thanks.
I do appreciate the input although I wish we had gotten off on a better foot.
Maybe I should have explained my history... When I said ''I didn't think it was a color management issue'' I was speaking from a bit of experience. I have been a graphic designer and photographic illustrator for many many years... I wouldn't call myself an expert on color management, (only a few people really are in my opinion) but I have a very good working understanding of the subject.
Here is one more screen shot that may illustrate the issue a bit better.
http://homepage.mac.com/murdockscott/otherimages/ColorShift3.jpg
Absolutely nothing changed between those 2 versions except the type of jepg chosen under ''format options''
Thanks again and tell your daughter I like her heron photo. : )
Doc.
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